離教者之家

Re: 離開了教會,道德如何?

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龍井樹 2007/7/4 16:13
ethic 應解作「倫理」。
或者說,你的「道德」就是我的「倫理」嗎?

以我理解,「肚餓」不是自由選擇,「食慾」也不是自由選擇,
吃與不吃可是自由選擇;「不吃會死」不是自由選擇,死也不吃可是自由選擇。

物理世界沒有告訴我什麼該與不該,
物理世界只有在與不在。
dye 2007/7/4 16:19
物理世界有告訴你什麼該與不該

如你腦中分「輕重」部份損壞,你會失去分辦該與不該的能力。

肚餓時你腦正告訴你該吃點什麼。但同時同理心的部份會告訴你不該吃。也有大腦分析的幫助,形成選擇的錯覺…

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2007-7-4 16:29 編輯 ]
龍井樹 2007/7/4 16:32
我的腦構成了我,是我的重要部份。
我說的自由,並非全無規範的絕對自由。
自由是在「我」這個限制底下得以有效運作的。
當我受到藥物影響,或是失去意識的情況下,
我是失去了自由的(或說「我」無法正常運作)。
法庭之上,
在失去意識的情況下人無需為自己的行為負責。
dye 2007/7/4 16:36
你不是失去意識,「輕重」部份損壞後,你仍很清醒。
只是你會不明白該與不該的分別。

(PSYCHOPATH 也要為自己的行為負責的。)

———
我舉例

The first of Dr. Miller's patients was a 54-year-old woman who had begun to experience loss of judgment and inhibition nine years earlier. Once a lover of expensive designer clothing and French cuisine, she had begun to buy cheaper brands of clothing and eat at fast-food restaurants. Her personality became "irritable, aggressive, and domineering" (Miller 2001, p. 818), and she became apathetic and quit her job.

The second patient was a 67-year-old man who had begun showing symptoms of dementia as early as 40. He had sold a business he had owned and had tried a variety of new jobs, but was repeatedly fired for irresponsible behavior; once "a critical, self-reliant individual who recognized his own failings" (p. 919), he now blamed his employers for his poor record. His previously puritanical views about sex became liberal, tolerant and experimental, and he urged his children to adopt a "libertine" lifestyle. By age 57, he had become careless, irritable and easily angered, and by 64 he was thoroughly demented.  

The third patient was a 63-year-old woman who had once been a well-dressed conservative. By age 56, however, she had become withdrawn, antisocial, hostile and uncaring; in one instance, she ran a red light, hit another car and then carelessly left the scene of the accident to go shopping. By age 62, her political ideology had changed, becoming diametrically opposed to her former beliefs; she became a passionate advocate of animal rights, publicly argued with people she saw buying conservative books, began to wear T-shirts and baggy pants with pro-wildlife slogans, and made incendiary anti-conservative statements such as, "Republicans should be taken off the Earth" (ibid.)  

The fourth patient, a 53-year-old man, quit his job as president of a successful advertising agency at age 35, declaring his intent to write a political novel. He moved to Guatemala, but never wrote anything, instead taking up an interest in photography and wax sculpture; during this entire time, he ignored his family and made no attempt to communicate with his wife or children for months at a stretch. He eventually returned home, but by age 51 he was running red lights, cheating and lying compulsively, criticizing unsuspecting guests and family members harshly for minor matters, staring inappropriately at women other than his wife, and masturbating in public. Within two years, he had to be committed to an institution.  

Another patient was very similar, a retired stockbroker who decided to become an artist. Like the last patient, he exhibited changes in language, dress and behavior, and rapidly grew disinhibited, frequently shoplifting or changing clothes in public without embarrassment. Eventually he stopped bathing and changing clothes entirely, the artistic talent he had developed faded, and he became demented.  

The final patient's case is the most interesting of all. A 70-year-old woman, she expressed "intense hatred" (ibid.) for her husband at his death, even though she had been married to him for decades. As the dementia worsened, the woman, who had been Lutheran all her life, converted to Catholicism, made donations to the church, and fell in love with a priest and claimed she was in a relationship with him. Six months after her religious conversion, she was thoroughly demented.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2007-7-4 16:49 編輯 ]
龍井樹 2007/7/4 16:52
我想這個失去是非對錯的病還未受到應有的重視,以及與普遍人對這個病缺乏認識(甚至不認同有這麼樣的一種病);只要假以時日,其他人都會認同他們應該免受刑責,正如不懂是非的孩童應該免受刑責一樣。
龍井樹 2007/7/4 16:55
孩童有成人作為監護人,這類病人亦應該受到適當的監管,以免危害社會。
dye 2007/7/4 17:14
基基便多不認同有這種病。

如果上帝發現法老王只是生腦cancer(其中一自然成因),佢仲點大屠殺
抽刀斷水 2007/7/4 19:59
中國既道德,係咪源自《道德經》?

用返道德經果D解釋啦,呢個我知dye兄都幾熟。

我呢D無道德主義者,靜靜觀看你們的討論吧。
dye 2007/7/4 22:44
那同理心論,自古科學家便有研究。

基因論,比如那條公式,也是生物學家William Donald Hamilton的作品

自私基因論,是道金斯成名作

………………

這可都不是我自身的尺。

—————
維基

道德可追溯源於先秦思想家老子所著的道德經,其中指自然運行與人世共通的真理;而德是指人世的美德、品行、王道。在當時是兩個概念,並無道德一詞。

在西方,"道德" 二字,是解作 "正確的行為",是在倫理學的範疇。" 道德" 的標準,在不同的文化上,哲學上,宗教上等也有不同的觀點,但普遍相信人類世界有很大部分的道德觀點也是相同的。道德很多時候跟良心一起談及,而良心就是推動作出良好行為。

在現代的用法中,道德則合禮教的意義相近,是指一种在社会生活实践中形成和发展,主要依靠社会舆论、风俗习惯和良心指导和约束,可以用善恶标准进行评价的个体和社会意识,人格品质规范和调整人与人、人与自然关系的行为规范;它是与这类意识和规范相联系的行为活动;以及通过这些活动所结成的社会关系的体系。

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2007-7-4 23:14 編輯 ]
抽刀斷水 2007/7/5 01:13
原帖由 dye 於 2007-7-4 22:44 發表
自私基因論,是道金斯成名作

《自私的基因》,i'm loving it~
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