離教者之家

為何基督教兩千年來至今仍屹立不倒?

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weakest 2008/2/22 01:16
"  Therefore, for a normal person, how could they deal with this kind of "imperfect information"? Is it reasonable for them to be alert on the Christian belief?"

What I mean was that, it is reasonable for people to be alert on the Christian belief.
prussianz 2008/2/22 02:32
原帖由 Paul_Bard 於 2008-2-21 11:25 發表
To 小妹 : M2和我是這裡少數基督徒~

To M2 : 很少這麼齊人, 來揍揍熱鬧先~


少數 ......... o yes , really , too 少 ,

hi high welcome ,
很少 seeing u , My Dear Sir Paul , nice 2 c u again , cheers



[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 04:47 編輯 ]
prussianz 2008/2/22 03:10
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-2-21 12:25 發表
>1. 當時基督教係國教, 大部份人都係"名義"的教徒~

原來這世界有那麼多無聊的人會把自己的性命像雜草一樣丟出去用來殺人。
他們還真可憐哪 - 當年就是超越眾道德的英雄
棋子用完之後就變成了名義的教徒。

此外,不 ...


>>>> 你還是先公佈一下今天殺人股行程再說吧

sorry , My Dear Sir Nomad , couldest thou shed some light up on what's `````殺人股行程'''' ??

cheers ThANKye , pendragon
prussianz 2008/2/22 03:36
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-2-21 15:40 發表


沒有神就代表"人不為己,天誅地滅"?
...難怪那些同樣相信從來就沒甚麼救世主的佛教僧人,還有新儒家的可憐傢伙,會在短短二十年間被基督徒們灌以各種不知所謂的罪名了。 ...


sorry , i'm too fresh here ,

if u guys have some time , could any 1 please show me some examples here-about ??

cheers ThANKye
prussianz 2008/2/22 04:03
原帖由 dye 於 2008-2-21 16:34 發表
It is a genocide

Joshua 10
40 So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survi ...


>>>> Oh, do you need to murder the kids, and the elderly?
>>>> Good old Joshua murdered these fellow even AFTER their army is subdued.

O yes , completly completely in 'the agree ,
+ ,
do you also need to murder those 100.000.000% innocent cattle, sheep and donkeys.

that must have been done by 'the non-devils-like devils ------>>>> Joshua + his men
that must have been done by 'the devils-not-called-as-devils ------>>>> Joshua + his men
that must have been done by 'the devils-hailed-as-goodmen-etc  ------>>>> Joshua + his men

原帖由 dye 發表

Situation in city God wanted to conquer [[[[[[[[[ : : ]]]]]]]]]

Joshua 6
20 When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound ofthe trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; soevery man charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devotedthe city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing init—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
prussianz 2008/2/22 04:05
原帖由 M2 於 2008-2-21 16:36 發表
如果趕人走唔算種族清洗,以色列趕哂d巴人走咪攪掂?
講到底呢個係爭奪土地既問題。

而家世界既共識(so to speak)係反對更改國界,但現時既國界咪係靠前人打生打死爭番黎。點解以前既人野蠻(以現代人既眼光)搶番黎既地方,而家就變左神聖不可侵犯既領土?如果支持維持現有國界,係未等於endorse以前既野蠻行為?


i endorse u here ;--^)
prussianz 2008/2/22 04:28
原帖由 Guest from 147.8.237.x 於 2008-2-21 17:08 發表
There are so many posts.........

  Hi Paul and M2, it's the first time for me to reply you two.

  Well, for those who kill under the Christian name, how could you be sure they are not "real Christia ...


>>>>>>>>>  By weakest (not dared to login as I am now in public area)

hi welcome to  遊客 147.8.237.x , oNo , its My Dear Sir Weakest , long time n'o c ,;--^)

>>>>>>>>>  (not dared to login as I am now in public area)

ThANKs 4 reminding me of this safety's approach
沙文 2008/2/22 04:49
原帖由 M2 於 2008-2-21 00:36 發表
而家世界既共識(so to speak)係反對更改國界,但現時既國界咪係靠前人打生打死爭番黎。點解以前既人野蠻(以現代人既眼光)搶番黎既地方,而家就變左神聖不可侵犯既領土?如果支持維持現有國界,係未等於endorse以前既野蠻行為?
兄您有史以來發言最睿智都係今鋪嘞!

不過您見事都仲係差小小。根據

終極真理#2,世界共識一定唔會永遠冇意外。
而根據終極真理
#1,在有須要及有能力及有時機嘅時候,我地都一樣係會繼續野蠻下去。

如果大家認為野蠻係唔啱,咁我地就唔好咁野蠻,來一個重新大執位,叫布殊宣佈取消美國,Caucasians全部遣返歐洲,African American遣返非洲,我地還返酒泉、敦煌俾匈奴........

如果唔係咁,又可以調轉頭來做 -- 由聯合國議决從此取消「國家」呢樣嘢。但講明先喎,到時亦不准有「以色列」喎!
prussianz 2008/2/22 04:57
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-2-21 17:27 發表
Advice: READ.

>就是因為無論前因後果,現代的人已經住在那裡
>現時再行改動(尤其根本不知道誰的傳說才對)只會無謂的發動國間戰爭,才有不改動國界的想法
>(尤其他們並沒有參與屠殺也不從屬同一個政府)
>(就連日本政府二次大戰前後都是改制的,只有基督教是二千年以來同一個。)
>其次,並不是每個國界都是侵略得來的 - 尤其是那些被歐洲一眾基督徒榨乾到農地都沒有的一眾非洲可憐國度。

By the way, you really have no idea how much idle land were there in the past?


>>>> 刀不出鞘才是劍術最高的境界
>>>> 難道連這一點也不明白嗎?

my suggestion : ::::::::::

your 刀 being 出鞘 , ecspecially @ here , 才是 [[your]]劍術 最高的境界 ,
cause : :::::
i have been blinded by the glaring brightness unleashed by your 刀 , which is being 出鞘 @ here
;;--^)

  cheers , pendragon , yours humbly standing here by your side ,

p.s. : ::::::::::
too many other good phrases from u , to b quoted all here

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 05:00 編輯 ]
prussianz 2008/2/22 05:16
原帖由 Jom 於 2008-2-21 14:14 發表
妹妹仔開咗呢個topic咁耐,我都有個猜想.天地萬物凡事都係有兩面既.咁會唔會兩千年來不繼將人性醜化,將神人化,將權力神化既教會,佢重未摺得既原因正正就係但丁提出既"人性七宗罪"既結果呢?

傲慢: 一日入教,即可享永生;要知每個人所要經歷既終結而你只要入教信耶就走得甩重可以與天地同壽喎.皇帝無既野你都有.個鼻重唔立刻向橫發展咩?而且教會入面重要唔係一個,係有一班人同你一樣,形成一種團體力量.對於人性中要求傲慢一環,中晒.

妒忌: 人生在世,能力各異,亦有高低之分.但教會入面則係提倡"人人耶前平等".能力多寡引致既階級地位分野立時消失.重唔引晒班能力無咁高既人入去咩.妒忌他人之心,去到教會將可以無限上綱到不能自己既地步.

暴怒: 對於生命中既唔公平,一種極怒而又無可奈何要接受既情況下.教會提供咗一個缺口,俾佢地去漠視其實重有可以用努力去改善眼下既情況,做少樣.而且係教會又可以選擇性咁用耶經教義去攻擊異己,何其快哉!

懶惰: 耶教講既係乜都交俾老耶,即人叫人唔駛諗咁多.教會亦俾佢地一個唔駛做乜野就可以有個叫老耶既位去緩和各種失落落感.教會實在係自信心唔夠,內在心靈空泛者既必然之選.

貪婪:自己信都唔夠,重要身邊既人都陪埋你一齊,身邊既人都唔夠,要成條村一齊,重未夠,最好全個國家一齊,甚至全世界一齊信先開心,咁先可以完全消除人與人之間既唔公平.另外一樣野,用物質/服務黎吸引教眾,用精神上既慰藉留住教眾,亦係睇住人性既弱點黎打.另外,用教會牌頭搵食果班人,咪又係因為貪婪呢特性先會入教會.

貪食: 人最基本既兩種原始慾望之一,派米派奶粉教會做唔少.但你食佢米得番條命,但就要接受洗腦.有少少好似早兩年既一單新聞,有個大陸人自己挖眼呃保險金,為咗六萬蚊.就算佢無被人篤爆,六萬蚊就一世啦.

色欲: 人另外一項原始慾望,但因為生命中既唔公平,唔係每一每個人都會得到適當既慰藉.教會既一軛輪造就咗"係敎會入面搵到性伴侶",唔單止維持到教會既發展,亦可以留住教眾,吸收新人.

所以我開頭就講,妹妹仔你歸納既points似乎唔係每一個人都用得著.或者你可以從另一個角度去理解教會係"三流心理醫生有限公司",佢地做緊既事工,其實都只係頭痛醫頭腳痛醫腳既心理輔導,而且係無責任可言既.當人搵到自己或者另外既慰藉既時候,教會就真係可以末落啦.


according my own : ::::::::::

each of your ,,,,,七宗罪'''' must b able to b included in My Fair Lady 小妹's list ,
expecially your ,,,,,色欲'''' , that's exActly the ground out of which i attended the churches ,

but ,
i dont think My Fair Lady 小妹 would dare to take in any 1 of your ,,,,,七宗罪'''' ,
ecspecially your ,,,,,色欲'''' ,;;--^)),
even though she would know those'r the truths ,

by 'the way , she may even probably not have enough life's experiences to .........


[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 05:56 編輯 ]
prussianz 2008/2/22 06:28
原帖由 M2 於 2008-2-21 17:21 發表
>If one use certain beliefs as the reason to kill, the belief should be condemned.

If I use a knife to kill, would you condemn the knife?  If I use a knife to save (say as a surgeon), would you appr ...


hi high greeting good morning My Dear Sir M2 ,

please let me pre-declare very clearly , a yiddish tradition ;;--^)

even/////although////allthough your ideas dont meet my smatch ,
even/////although////allthough you be a devout Christian ,
but ,
i couldnt care i.e. i dont care at all ;;--^) whether u'r a Christian or not ,
since
u'r the 少數
种族 here ,
u
+ My Fair Lady 小妹
+ My Dear Sir Paul
e.t.c.
have won automaticcally all
my due respects here , ,

cheers ThANKye , pendragon

>>>> 原帖由 Paul_Bard 於 2008-2-21 11:25 發表
>>>> To 小妹 : M2和我是這裡少數基督徒~
>>>>
>>>> To M2 : 很少這麼齊人, 來揍揍熱鬧先~

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 06:33 編輯 ]
Nomad 2008/2/22 12:06
原帖由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 03:36 發表


sorry , i'm too fresh here ,

if u guys have some time , could any 1 please show me some examples here-about ??

cheers ThANKye


新儒家運動早在90年代被批評為盲目排外

而佛教,其實基督教對佛教的誣蔑大概是普遍得我不用數,多數上過教會學校的人都聽過才對 - 由佛教拜菩薩佛像為神,到被指是虛無主義(既然一切成空,則道德亦不存在),一些索性指信佛教的都是自私鬼(靠自己,修來修去都是罪)
然後直到現在,看到有佛教的人用汽車,上網,用手提電話,就興高采烈地聲稱他們其實都依戀世間事物。

最可憐的是,人家慈濟基金會拿自己的捐獻開學校,賑災,推行環保,既不要求受惠者昄依,也不參與政治活動
卻永遠被一群天天上街遊行,然後拿政府錢做聲稱慈善和辦學(而辦學的Qualification和手法總是下三流的),卻每次都要人點頭信教才會派奶粉的教會評擊為偽善。
Nomad 2008/2/22 12:09
原帖由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 04:57 發表


>>>> 刀不出鞘才是劍術最高的境界
>>>> 難道連這一點也不明白嗎?

my suggestion : ::::::::::

your 刀 being 出鞘 , ecspecially @ here , 才是 [[your]]劍術 最高的境界 ,
cause : :::::
i have been blinded ...


這句不是指言語上的事啦
刀是指真正的刀
雖然不敢說自己是劍手,但小弟都是練劍道的
這也不過是閒時的胡言亂語而已(笑)
Jom 2008/2/22 12:25
P仔又唔好咁話佢,只係佢set個topic有少少tricky,可能佢自己都可能無alert到.

首先,佢個topic唔係judge耶教/老耶穌哥既真偽.

而係點解兩千年來耶教都重可以存在.佢用"屹立"其實係一個褒詞,會令人聯想"不倒",可能係佢既耶徒身份要咁講掛.用"存在"可能會好少少.因為宗教既存在既得益者,只係某一部份既教眾同跟住教會搵食既人,對於無乜同教會來往既人,教會只係社會上其中一個組織.對人而言一個組織做咗好事但又有做壞事既,我頂到盡只可以將其性質定為中性/具爭議性.但就斷可以將佢定性做"好"或者"傾向好"果一方面.

而佢提出既呢一個post另一個tricky之處,就係佢開宗明義話最好只針對耶教而論.但試問一個係社會存在既組織,可唔可以就只係講佢內部有幾好就可以解構到點解佢可以存在咁耐?我自己就覺得唔得囉.就好似好多人都知共產主義有幾好一樣,但亦有太多外在環境因素決定咗共產主義係實行同存在係具有難以解決既問題既,

但如果佢係有心咁set一個咁既topic,從而得到一d論據去反駁/反映事實既話,我係佢我會覺得不得要領囉.因為個問題set得狹義咗,但講緊既係一樣好大材料好豐富既野,係無可能三言兩語得到一個係人都駁唔返既論據既.

但當然,呢個topic既最後一destination係耶教奉緊既唔係"真理".只要係yes,咁就可以推返所有離教者既論據,但如果係no,即係耶教可以收皮.

妹妹仔係有心討論既,可能佢未handle好自己想問乜或者自己問呢個topid有乜目的啫.
Nomad 2008/2/22 12:34
原帖由 prussianz 於 2008-2-22 03:10 發表


>>>> 你還是先公佈一下今天殺人股行程再說吧

sorry , My Dear Sir Nomad , couldest thou shed some light up on what's `````殺人股行程'''' ??

cheers ThANKye , pendragon


這個倫理股市的形容早在舊版已經這樣用
指基督教根本沒有固定的倫理體系,「耶和華」(而其地上代表只有教會)哪天說殺某人是對,大家就必須殺掉某人,反之亦然
就跟只憑著各種的消息就大升大跌的股市一樣
M2 2008/2/22 15:06
原帖由 Guest from 147.8.237.x 於 2008-2-21 17:43 發表
Unfortunately, in now, no people could really distinguish the "real" Christian from "unreal" group. Someone may speak some devil, even he/she is from church, and use the "word of God" to justify killi ...

You're right to point out that it is not possible to distinguish the "real" from the "unreal" christians.  The judge would only be made in the end of the world.  Jesus has explained the fact quite clearly in the parable of the tares (Matthew 13:36-43).

Christian belief is a personal relationship with God.  If one's belief is based on his or her teacher, that will surely fail.   How about if one's teacher is an "unreal" christian?  Let's see what Jesus said to his disciples:

Matthew 23:1-3
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;
therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

Jesus asked his disciples to do and observe what the scribes and the Pharisees said.  These two groups of people are not even Christians.

So if the teaching is good.  It's good even if the teacher is not good.  However, do not follow the one who does bad.
Nomad 2008/2/22 17:52
原帖由 Guest from 147.8.237.x 於 2008-2-21 17:43 發表
Unfortunately, in now, no people could really distinguish the "real" Christian from "unreal" group. Someone may speak some devil, even he/she is from church, and use the "word of God" to justify killi ...


I won't say it's "unfortunate" because the degeneracy of real and fake Christians is a logical consequence of the Divine Command Theory which necessarily results in degeneracy of truth value of any ethical statements.
dye 2008/2/22 20:54
Instead of debatng till our face turn blue and the cows comes home, below I offer you a bit of comics for a relieve.

Jom 2008/2/22 21:17
係囉,咁等你地清理好門戶先再出黎講吧啦.

咁多人入咗你地個教之後,攞住老耶個名又玩細路又殺人又呃錢又盛.就算無話大奸大惡,做到包容呢一點都唔多啦.當唔當到天主教係弟兄呀?天主教果班呢?又有無話因為個學生信基督教而無將佢入學資格擺得同信天主教既咁高呀?

有無邊個無因為自己係耶徒既身份無驕傲過呀?有無因為阿邊個唔係信埋同你同一個宗派就話人教義有問題咁呀?個心有無諗過呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無妒忌過其他人,講過唔應該又或者聽番黎既消息出街呀?工作上家庭上朋友間有無分化過其他人咁呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無發過火呀?細路唔聽話伙夥唔聽話老婆老公唔聽話股樓金馬狗唔聽話有無又怨蒼天鬧祖先咁呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無懶過呀?有無為咗星期六日去玩樂而唔返團契唔返禮拜呀?有無去超過七日既旅行呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無買過股票無炒過樓無買過六合彩無搏命爭取更好既生活條件呀?強積金買進取型既都唔得果喎.有無貪戀過更多安全感而係咁儲錢而無攞去幫有需要既人呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無貪食過呀?享受都算喎.出街食飯有無落過order呀?定係等個待應俾乜你食就食乜呀?

有無邊個係信咗老耶之後無昅過d大大張係地鐵既瘦身廣告呀?有無覺得d耶徒女星性感得黎好健康呀?有無行過女裝內衣部既時候有尶介既感覺呀?有無試過去睇戲有情慾片段後就對心儀既女孩子有奇妙既諗法呀?

老耶俾機會你地禱告告解懺悔,係俾機會你地唔好再犯改過,但有邊個真係以後都無犯吖?時間唔夠?一日唔夠ok,一個月好未?唔得?fine,一年啦?重未得呀?一生吧啦...

人係無疑係好軟弱,但軟弱到"認錯就異常積極,改進就無能為力"既.咁就真係"士碌架",無得救.
prussianz 2008/2/23 05:53
原帖由 Nomad 於 2008-2-22 12:06 發表


新儒家運動早在90年代被批評為盲目排外

而佛教,其實基督教對佛教的誣蔑大概是普遍得我不用數,多數上過教會學校的人都聽過才對 - 由佛教拜菩薩佛像為神,到被指是虛無主義(既然一切成空,則道德亦不存在),一些索性指信佛教的都是自私鬼(靠自己,修來修去都是罪)
然後直到現在,看到有佛教的人用汽車,上網,用手提電話,就興高采烈地聲稱他們其實都依戀世間事物。

最可憐的是,人家慈濟基金會拿自己的捐獻開學校,賑災,推行環保,既不要求受惠者昄依,也不參與政治活動
卻永遠被一群天天上街遊行,然後拿政府錢做聲稱慈善和辦學(而辦學的Qualification和手法總是下三流的),卻每次都要人點頭信教才會派奶粉的教會評擊為偽善 ...


ThANKs4reminding , i have also gotten some similar winds here-about ,

>>>>然後直到現在,看到有佛教的人用汽車,上網,用手提電話,就興高采烈地聲稱他們其實都依戀世間事物

some block-heads may have had their heads blocked by their religion ,

if ..... there b a monk eye-witnessing a wildfire in a nearby country-side ,  e.t.c. ,  
+ ,
if ..... he not possess a 手提電話 @ this time ,
then ....
how could he dial up 999 ?????????

this example is so simple for even a little kid , but , those block-heads .....

[ 本帖最後由 prussianz 於 2008-2-23 06:35 編輯 ]
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