為何基督教兩千年來至今仍屹立不倒?

M2 2008/2/21 17:21

>If one use certain beliefs as the reason to kill, the belief should be condemned.

If I use a knife to kill, would you condemn the knife? If I use a knife to save (say as a surgeon), would you appreciate the knife?

There is no need, and not possible to differentiate real or false Christians.

There are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to kill, and there are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to save. Are u going to condemn the beliefs or the persons doing the bad things?

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:25

>If I use a knife to kill, would you condemn the knife? If I use a knife to save (say as a surgeon), would you appreciate the knife?

A Nazi firmly expel a Jew from his territory.

Would we appreciate Nazism? It's a handy "tool" for Hitler afterall!

I would rather advice stop playing a circular game ignoring previous posts.

M2 2008/2/21 17:25

一位內地學者告訴我，兩廣原居民是現在的越南人。聽後你會否超特大苦笑，立刻派船把他們接來。

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:27

Advice: READ.

>就是因為無論前因後果,現代的人已經住在那裡
>現時再行改動(尤其根本不知道誰的傳說才對)只會無謂的發動國間戰爭,才有不改動國界的想法
>(尤其他們並沒有參與屠殺也不從屬同一個政府)
>(就連日本政府二次大戰前後都是改制的,只有基督教是二千年以來同一個。)
>其次,並不是每個國界都是侵略得來的 - 尤其是那些被歐洲一眾基督徒榨乾到農地都沒有的一眾非洲可憐國度。

By the way, you really have no idea how much idle land were there in the past?

Paul_Bard 2008/2/21 17:33

hi Weakest,

其實沒有人會真正知道(審判)到另一個人是否"真正"基督徒 :
哥林多前書 4:5 所以，時候未到，甚麼都不要論斷，只等主來，他要照出暗中的隱情，顯明人心的意念。那時，各人要從　上帝那裡得著稱讚。

但有線索可尋 :
路加福音 6:43 因為，沒有好樹結壞果子，也沒有壞樹結好果子。

根據果子(一個人的思想所產生的行為)可大概分辨

神藉律法告訴我們, 讓我們知道殺人是剝削別人的生命, 即私奪了神所創造的人類的寶貴生命, 是極大的罪, 這是大規則

但神知道人的隱情, 神知道一個人做一件事的真正動機, 所以神才有資格去審判人~ 也只有神知道一個人是否真正基督徒

殺人一定是大罪, 假借神的名義殺人的罪更大, (真正)基督徒比任何人更清楚, 也是為何要和大家辯論這些辯得認真的原因

匿名 2008/2/21 17:33

1. Using knife to compare with belief is inappropriate. Christian belief have distorted human's 人性, and justify the killing action. But could a knife be used to justify killing? It is simply a tool that makes killing possible, the action are done by people, who believes killing is a good action as told by "God" (or with some other reason).

2. That's why Christianity could make people doing bad things. And it is unreasonable for those Christian who want to defend the Christian belief simply by "they are not real Christian", right?

3. There is a set of beliefs for Christianity. "Love people" is a good thing. "Killing people with different belief" is a bad thing

By weakest

M2 2008/2/21 17:34

空地雖然多，優質地卻唔係咁多。如果唔係d中國既小數民族都唔會走哂去d窮鄉僻壤既山區喇。

dye 2008/2/21 17:35

By God's Law, do you mean the Law of Moses?

We need Sherman over here.

Sher--- man.. Sher --- man

-------------
Oh mine. So Joshua is a false prophet. Moses is a false prophet.. among the many.

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 17:36 編輯 ]

Paul_Bard 2008/2/21 17:35

There are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to kill, and there are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to save. Are u going to condemn the beliefs or the persons doing the bad things?

很清楚的回答, 我會記低, =P

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:37

其實這個討論有點怪
說到無神論者的時候,就似乎好像要他們好像神一樣用甚麼神蹟去解決問題,於是絕對不可以有甚麼差錯
但是全能的上帝就可以特地將所有人收監在一片不夠半個土星大的地方打生打死
明明說到全知全能可以再造個星球接人上去住,說有應許之地都要特地要人去殺光原住民來娛樂大眾,理所當然。

這世界是越是沒力量責任越大這樣了？
難怪醫學救人永遠都歌頌上帝,教會打戰爭殺人永遠都怪科學家。

說起來...
還真有個地方自己選舉進了萬惡的美利堅合眾國呢...
...我們現在叫那地方做夏威夷。

dye 2008/2/21 17:38

Interbreed.  Interbreed.

Land surveying help.  The land resources can be limited, but since we are not all knowing, we can find good places that is uninhabited.

Influx of tech also help.  New method of farming can increase the capacity of the land, and possibly make what used to be inhabitable land habitable.

Among the many possibility...  you need to be innovative here.

----------------------
When God is on your sides, land can become fertile!

[ 本帖最後由 dye 於 2008-2-21 17:42 編輯 ]

Paul_Bard 2008/2/21 17:39

跟著聯想... 菲律賓, 印尼...

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:40

>空地雖然多，優質地卻唔係咁多。如果唔係d中國既小數民族都唔會走哂去d窮鄉僻壤既山區喇。

你到底知不知道他們何時才去山區的？
四千年前？？
為什麼會變成窮鄉僻壤？山區本身是沒有資源嗎？還是在現代人眼中缺乏現代機建？

...回去中學再教育。

呀,抱歉,去都是去教會中學,所以看來沒救了。

M2 2008/2/21 17:41

無驚無險，又到五點！

走之前都要同Dye拜年：鼠年祝你既人道主義事業蒸蒸日上！

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:41

>跟著聯想... 菲律賓, 印尼...

所以印尼華人(哦,多數是明末才去的。)要搬走我絕不反對啊！
有地方收容的話。

匿名 2008/2/21 17:43

Unfortunately, in now, no people could really distinguish the "real" Christian from "unreal" group. Someone may speak some devil, even he/she is from church, and use the "word of God" to justify killing actions. For Christian, God could judge, but, how about the way that people could follow AT THIS TIME? After all, people's choice of actions would mostly be an immediate choice and not much time is allowed for people to consider, and therefore, it would be too late for people to wait for the "final judgement" of God.

Therefore, for a normal person, how could they deal with this kind of "imperfect information"? Is it reasonable for them to be alert on the Christian belief?

By weakest

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:48

>Unfortunately, in now, no people could really distinguish the "real" Christian from "unreal" group. Someone may speak some devil, even he/she is from church, and use the "word of God" to justify killing actions. For Christian, God could judge, but, how about the way that people could follow AT THIS TIME? After all, people's choice of actions would mostly be an immediate choice and not much time is allowed for people to consider, and therefore, it would be too late for people to wait for the "final judgement" of God.

> Therefore, for a normal person, how could they deal with this kind of "imperfect information"? Is it reasonable for them to be alert on the Christian belief?

真正的問題是
他們永遠會再有下一次叫你去殺人
然後永遠又會再說你不是教徒
之後所有人又永遠不會有資格評論

結果呢?死了的人是死了,而教會永遠在撈油水。

Nomad 2008/2/21 17:50

>There are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to kill, and there are Christians who "use" their beliefs as reasons to save. Are u going to condemn the beliefs or the persons doing the bad things?

很明顯地又是沒讀過Milgram's Experiment,和納粹/日軍和普通平民的關係的又一個人。

匿名 2008/2/21 20:22

為了實現屹立千年不倒的理想﹐基督徒歷史上蓄意殺了不少人﹐努力殺戮掠奪竟然真係得到佐想要的回報

殺人放火金腰帶這名句真係冇講錯

沙文 2008/2/21 21:29

原帖由 M2 於 2008-2-21 00:06 發表
小弟今次唯有自認好天真好傻。
原來"黃帝vs>蚩尤"係"隻揪"，唔係部族戰爭！
多謝賜教！

M2兄您緊係冇交學費俾歷史系嘞。等我叫我師妹同您補習啦

吾大中華上國打仗，真係有將領隻揪嘅傳統：

《左傳》宣公十二年：彭名禦左廣，屈盪為右。乙卯，王乘左廣以逐趙旃。趙旃棄車而走林，屈盪搏之，得其甲裳。
《三國志》太史慈傳：時獨與一騎卒遇策。策從騎十三，皆韓當、宋謙、黃蓋輩也。慈便前鬥，正與策對。策刺慈馬，而攬得慈項上手戟，慈亦得策兜鍪。會兩家兵騎並各來赴，於是解散。
項羽亦摟過劉邦隻揪，不過劉邦自忖武藝低微，唔穌佢之嘛：
《史記‧項羽本紀》項王謂漢王曰：‘天下匈匈數歲者，徒以吾兩人耳，願與漢王挑戰，決雌雄，毋徒苦天下之民父子為也。’漢王笑謝曰：‘吾寧鬥智，不能鬥力。’項王令壯士出挑戰。漢有善騎射者樓煩，楚挑戰三合，樓煩輒殺之。項王大怒，乃自被甲持戟挑戰。樓煩欲射之，項王嗔目叱之，樓煩目不敢視，手不敢發，遂走還入壁，不敢復出。

新唐書記薛仁貴的「將軍三箭定天山，壯士長歌入漢關」，仁貴以三箭射瓜九姓突厥三名將領，九姓突厥全軍就此扯白旗。

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